A few (rather important) new characters and epithets were introduced in this week's chapter. We ended up going back and forth a few times with the romanization of their names, and there appears to be a bit of confusion among you all as well, so I thought I'd just come forward and clear the air.
Let's talk about Sanji's older sister. Her name in katakana is レイジュ. This is pronounced "Ray-joo." The standard romanization for this name would be "Reiju." Initially, I wasn't too much of a fan of this spelling, as I felt it didn't look appropriately "feminine." She herself is clearly quite feminine, and her charms/flirtyness are a part of her character. At first, then, I didn't (and still don't) feel that the word "Reiju" looked like the kind of name a character like that should have. Her name is very close to the word "Rouge," a relatively common name for similar "sexy possibly villanous woman" archetype characters. (Anyone ever played Sonic Adventure 2?) I therefore decided that Reige would be a better romanization; it maintains the pronunciation while fitting more with the image of the character.
However, after thinking about it a bit more, I realized it was more important to preserve the commonality in the patterning of the Vinsmoke children's names. As many of you probably already know, the Vinsmoke siblings introduced so far all have a number at the beginning of their names. Additionally, with the introduction of Yonji and Reige/Reiju, we can perhaps guess that the pattern is "number + j + vowel." The "Reige" spelling goes against this patterning, and makes it seem like Reiju is somehow unique or different than her siblings, a conclusion I would rather avoid readers jumping to. So I ended up switching the name back. This happened pretty soon after the chapter was released, within about 10 minutes.
Next, let's talk about name ordering. This was basically just my mistake. For those who aren't aware, Japanese names are traditionally written with one's surname or "last" name first. Obama Barack, Smith Will, etc. In certain series (Haikyu, BNHA, TG) we reverse the ordering because it can be confusing for readers to identify which is a character's first name and which isn't, especially when they are referred to by both. However, there's a strong existing precedent for NOT swapping names in One Piece, because "Luffy D. Monkey" just sounds weird. We've gotten used to the other ordering, and the rest of the names should follow suit. I forgot about that this week. My apologies. The name ordering is now fixed; it took me a bit longer than I'd like to get around to having it switched, however.
Finally, while we're talking about ordering, I'd like to offer my thoughts on the epithets of the two newly-introduced Vinsmoke siblings. People seem to be preferring an ordering that has the color come first, followed by the noun. That is, "Green Winch," not "Winch Green." Unfortunately, the latter ordering is the one given in the raws. Additionally, the epithet is not written in kanji or hiragana like a regular name; it literally is "Winchu Guriin" in katakana. with the information we have at the moment, I don't feel that that's enough to assume that it's an actual name and should therefore be reordered, especially given what I just mentioned about not reordering names in One Piece. People have also pointed to Sanji's name as an example of a "switched" ordering, but the two aren't exactly comparable. The reason Sanji's epithet, "Black Leg," is written in that order is because it is fundamentally different from his other siblings (so far, at least). As I mentioned earlier, "Winch Green" and "Poison Pink" are written in katakana. "Black Leg" is written in Kanji, and it's often written in the Japanese text after Sanji's own name, similar to how "Pirate Hunter" comes after Zoro's, or "Straw Hat" after Luffy's. Adjective ordering in Japanese dictates that these epithets be placed in FRONT of the names they describe. That's why you get "Straw Hat Luffy" not "Luffy the Straw Hat." As far as we can tell in this chapter, "Winch Green" and "Poison Pink" do not follow this pattern. Reiju refers to herself just as "the Poison Pink," not "Reiju the Poison Pink" or "Poison Pink Reiju." Of course, this information may change as we learn more about these characters, but at the moment, given the information we do have, I don't think we can assume that the ordering of the epithets of the two Vinsmoke siblings should be switched.
Thanks as always for your support.
Just got a quick info regarding Hunter x Hunter for you today. The series takes about 2-3 times as long to translate as One Piece (the 2nd longest series in our weekly line-up), but at the same time, for many of us on the team, it's their favorite.
We have various systems of proofreading set up for all our series, ranging from simply reading through it while typesetting (putting the text into the bubbles) and making sure there aren't any typos to having a 2nd translator attached to a series who reads both, the raws and the primary translation fully - making sure no meaning is lost and often offering alternative phrasing options to the primary translator.
In the case of Hunter x Hunter, we have our most veteran translator working on the series, whose translations we generally only look through for typos and such and who makes those lightning-fast releases possible in the first place by staying up well into the early morning hours every week for us all. However, HxH is not an easy series to translate by any means. Not only is it extremely text-heavy, but often also worded very ambiguously, with complex grammar and vocabulary; especially so in the current arc where Togashi is throwing one complex scenario into the mix after another, along with dictionary-styled explanations for them all — leaving us feeling like Gon.
But as I mentioned above, it IS the staff's darling, so we go through extra lengths for it. We have several translators going through the chapters bubble by bubble, offering alternative readings. (For better understanding; Japanese often doesn't clarify who is talking to who or about who as pronouns tend to be omitted and/or unclear.) Given the length of the chapters and people involved, our goal is to have an updated, final, as-close-to-perfect-as-possible chapter that we're all very happy with by the following week. Thus, we highly recommend that you all re-read the previous week's chapter now before reading the current one.
For 350, we did the update already ~24h ago, about 2 days before the new chapter coming in, and we'll definitely try to do those updates asap, but generally speaking, re-reading it on Thursdays is your safest best. Let me know in the comments if you'd like facebook updates on that progress. To give you an idea, we updated 1-2 bubbles on about half the pages. While I wouldn't say that any of the changes affect the overall understanding of the chapter, most of them do contribute a lot to helping the dialog make more sense than previously. For instance, we changed the assumed speaker on 1-2 occasions, changed the implied (groups of) people in some other bubbles and improved the overall flow in everything else. In short: It's definitely worth re-reading, especially if you want to be sure that you have the most complete understanding of what happened.
Finally, I just wanted to state - those complex, difficult and often rambling bubbles are most definitely INTENDED to be difficult to understand, they're meant to look long and complex, and we aren't fans of removing that aspect in the translation by just summarizing what it says. We're meant to feel like this and enjoy it.
Literal vs. Liberal
Pt. 2 - Profanity
Heya Heya, it's DzyDzyDino again.
It's been a little while since my last update, and for that I apologize. In between getting perpetually sick and being really busy with other projects, I just had problems finding the time! But I'm back to pick up where I left off!
Last time, I wrote a bit about Literal vs. Liberal translations. Since then, it's something I've been even more aware of than usual while translating and reading.
One area where Literal vs. Liberal really raises some questions is profanity.
First, let's talk shit.
Shit. shit. shit.
What is shit? A "profane" word for fecal matter? A vulgar expletive? A casual word among perhaps younger and more "rowdy" people for "stuff"?
I'm taking a shit.
Look at this shit everywhere.
You're in deep shit now.
Are you shitting me?
I don't give a shit.
This list can go on and on, and although in some cases, maybe it literally is referring to fecal matter, not always.
So the japanese dictionary equivalent for shit, くそ (kuso) doesn't fit in all these (or nearly any) situations. "Kuso" really just is a more vulgar term for feces that can be used as an expletive.
The pure English concept of profanity though doesn't exist the same way in Japanese. You can be profane and vulgar without using "kuso." You can be profane just by how you talk and who you're talking to.
I keep bringing up "kuso" for a few reasons. One, because that's the one people tend to know and is easily / readily available to look up online. Two, because, frankly, that's just about where the direct translations stop.
English can be a very colorful language, and when it comes to profanity, you could paint Picasso. Cockramming assmunching fuckmongering bitchfaced dickhole of a douche pirate.
I've heard colorful Japanese insults thrown around, too, around drunk and rowdy Japanese folk, but the word "kuso" was not involved among them. Calling people things like "Toxic Waste" and "Scattered Trash" and stuff like that. Ugly stupid octopus. etc.
If I was translating a serious Yakuza manga, and some tough gangster who'd seen some shit was really pissed off at someone... if he stood up, slammed his fist down on the table and said "Vanish! You foolish octopus!", what we'd have is a problem to communicate. Unless he was talking to the comic relief in the series, a magical disappearing cephalopod, this is the time for something like "Get the fuck out of my face, you... umm... douche pirate."
You get the picture.
I keep coming back to "kuso" also because that's really the only direct profanity translation there is. There's nothing for fuck. Fuck? A vulgar way to describe two people having sex? It's a lot more than that. I won't list the options here.
When translating vulgarity in manga, usually you take a look at the character and how the phrase compares to their regular speech. Is what they're saying way more forward than what they'd usually say? Or are they the kind of character that usually speaks pretty loose/brash to begin with?
Apart from expletives, name-calling is also a pretty common place for profanity.
In japanese, name calling usually starts with "kono!!" (with what comes after it implied possibly) or "Kono ______!!!" now. If we were being super literal (and I have seen plenty of bad scanlations/translations that have done this), we would translate "kono" to the literal "this!!!"
このやろう！！ Kono yarou!! Yarou literally being a guy, dude, whatever. But depending on context can be very vulgar. How vulgar? It depends on the situation. If you're shouting angrily at someone and say this, it'd come across as "You motherfucker!!" or "You bastard!" or whatever else, depending on how you say it and who you are and who they are. But of course, if we're being super literal, we'd go "THIS GUY!!"
What are we? Guidos? "Ayyye! This guy!! This guy right 'ere? Can you believe this guy?" No. No we are not.
殺す コロス ぶっ殺す ぶっ殺してやる
Here's some manga favorites. The kanji in above is for korosu or "to kill." If we're being super-duper literal with no concept of Japanese language whatsoever, we'd type that into google translate and see it pops up as "to kill" and be like "To kill!!"
Kill is a strong word, and without getting into who would / wouldn't say this and too far out of subject, the most usual context would be "I'm gonna kill you" "I'll kill you." But again, it's so context based, it's not going to be translated as that in every situation.
It's a pretty heated thing to say and sometimes they'll inflect even more "passion" into it with that little bu- prefix which kind of adds strength into the following verb. (like the internet favorite, Kake meaning to cover with, or to put on (top of). Adding a Bu- for emphasis leaves you with something for another discussion entirely.)
But so what, someone struggling for their life, enraged and out of control saying bukkorosu!! We translate as "I'm REALLY going to kill you!!" or even better, "I'm going to kill you" ... IN BOLD? Come on. No. Context, people.
"I'm gonna fucking kill you!" at the very least. "You're fucking dead."
It really depends. And again, it might not always be profane. It really depends so much on context.
Profanity is not as cut and dry as it is in English. There are not simply "bad words" you don't say. If we're going there, there's whole manners of speech you shouldn't use, and there's a proper way to conduct yourself, and anything going against those would be "profane" in some way, depending on context.
We read a lot of your comments and many of you feel profanity in manga feels inappropriate or doesn't seem like what a certain character would say. For the most part, we try not to use profanity unless it actually adds something to the scene or character.
If a character who normally speaks in a rather tame tone suddenly starts speaking in a manner way more, well, vulgar than he normally speaks and is popping off at people, profanity is an excellent way to illustrate that.
If we had to, could we leave the profanity out? Sure. Some translators choose not to use any. Some translators have a vision of an anime/manga world that's, well... PG as opposed to PG-13/R. It's always a choice, always up for discussion, and apart from straight mistranslations, there's always room for debate.
In the end, it all comes down to interpretation, the translator/scanlation group, and choices.
We know you trust us to bring you a quality, meaningful scanlation every week and appreciate your readership. We love the series we translate and make every choice with as much information and intent as possible. As translators, we try to convey all the meaning we found when reading the original Japanese raws into English.
I had a lot more to say and a lot more examples, but this went on way longer than I expected already. Perhaps I'll revisit this topic at a future date, as I know it's one that's constantly being addressed.
Until then, from me and the crew here at mangastream, thanks as always for your readership and we hope to continue to bring you timely scanlations of the highest quality we can muster for the forseeable future!
Peace out, bitches.
Felt like rambling a little. Redrawing is, as most of you already know, about removing the original Japanese text on the images, on all the occasions where text is not in bubbles, boxes or on otherwise neat, clean and solid white or black color background. It'd be called just "drawing", but it's really about trying to fill in what's once been there, and it's often just a fragment, like half of someone's face, or half of a building.
Whenever it's just half of something, that's a great thing - that means you have something to go by, and can sometimes even clone-stamp from a different section of the page. When you have nothing to go with, it's literally drawing a whole chunk of art, trying to match the respective mangaka's drawing style and so on. Pretty tough deal, right? It is, and that's probably why competent, capable and long-lasting redrawers are the hardest position to fill in a scanlation group. Never mind how thankless of a job it is; best case scenario, nobody mentions a thing cause they don't notice it - worst case, it's obvious and it bothers people and they bitch at you. And any redrawers' strongest critic is he/she him/herself, having sometimes spent hours on a single page, knowing all of its individual pixels by name and hence seeing any possible screw-ups that most readers wouldn't even notice. Really bad for people with OCD, I speak from experience.
...now that I think about, that isn't the best way to encourage you all to apply for the task, huh? xD
It is fun at the same time, I promise. It's rewarding, because you get to see the result of your work on the page right when it's completed, and despite the rumors that we're all a gang of evil pricks, we're actually a fun little private community of hardcore fans from all walks of life and it's a lot of fun to work within our group, that I also promise.
We're looking for anyone with some experience with Photoshop, really. It may seem like you need to be an artsy person for this, and it certainly helps a lot if you are and can draw (maybe even with a graphic tablet?), but at least 50% of all redraws are about knowing your tools. Your clone stamp tool, your healing brush, your dodge and burn tools, the line or brush tool and most definitely the selection tools. If you have those under your belt from appliances outside of manga redrawing, chances are you already have what it takes to take a shot at this and help out your favorite team release those favorite series of yours. ;)
Really, what is most important is that you have the spare time you are willing to dedicate to this and the ability to learn on your own, from various tutorials out there and the feedback you'd receive from the senior members. We don't have any minimum time requirements or anything like that, but if you're busy with a demanding job, wife, kids and other hobbies, this really isn't for you and why the heck would you even consider applying anyway? If you're going to college and have a few hours every day where you just don't do shit and would rather be productive with a fun hobby instead of watching that 12th re-run of the Big Bang Theory, then come on in, our doors are open for ya. Obviously, anything in between works too, haha.
Thar, just compiled a little imgur album with a few examples of before and after redraw panels. Some of those examples are all about clone-stamping accurately (those gray patterns, the stuff that looks like a chessboard basically) and spot-on, if you're even 1 pixel off it looks off, so zoom in there and and make ALT+CTRL+Z a shortcut, cause you'll use it a lot to go back a step. Others are more about having an understanding for the art and connecting lines, getting the curves correctly and to look natural. Check it out for yourself.
If you're interested, check out the application page here and send your attempt to smokybarrettms [at] gmail.com along with some other information like your age, time-zone, experience, etc.
I will say this; redrawing is basically a major bottle-neck, both for speed of releases and, effectively, also the amount of series we can work on. People keep messaging us to pick this or that up, and I have no doubt they will in this thread also (please don't...), but what it comes down to is, each series can be measured in hours of effort it takes, and we don't do half-assed jobs where we just rush something out the door. In other words, the more helping hands we got, the better we can do.
We're really a tiny group, there's tops two dozen active people at a time, and half are translators with their respective series, so you can imagine the impact of even one person leaving or becoming busy with a new job or the exam season approaching and such. Don't get me wrong, this is no "oh pity poor us" thing, we're having fun as it is, I'm just stating the facts, we're pretty happy with how much we manage and how fast we do it, but if you want us to do even better, it's up to you to join in the frenzy. :)
PS: Here's a great tutorial resource that you better be prepared to read and re-read if you're serious about joining:
Literal vs. Liberal
Pt. 1 - Context
DzyDzyDino here again! Back with another little blog entry about translation, localization, and Japanese.
The purpose of these blog entries, apart from sharing with you a little behind-the-scenes glimpse, is to hopefully also show you what goes into localization and a bit of how the Japanese language works.
Because no translation is ever perfect, especially for a language so fundamentally different even in syntax from our own, we're always left choosing between something more direct and literal that reads awkwardly or something that reads and feels smooth and native in English but takes some liberty with the Japanese.
Either way, I think knowing a little about the source material helps to enjoy both methods of translation a bit more, and that's what these blog posts hopefully help to do!
The Literal vs. Liberal translation / localization is one that usually divides fans and translators alike. Sometimes there are more direct cases, like... do you want honorifics like -san, -kun, -chan, -sama, do you want them localized on a one-for-one basis to things like Mr. and Sir, or do you want it omitted based on context as to whether or not it's even important to the story?
I think most of us here at mangastream prefer a context-heavy localization (at least I do!). In other words, one which prioritizes getting the "meaning" and "feel" of what the original Japanese is across into a way that feels and means the same thing in English. Oftentimes choosing a meaningful translation over one that might be "by-the-book" or correct on a "word-for-word" basis with the Japanese.
There's a Japanese saying that gets used in a lot of manga: "百年早い"(hyakunen hayai) which literally translates to "100 years too early." - meaning "you're way too inexperienced/amateur for this, try again in 100 years." But unless there's like some specific plot device circling around 100 years or time-power or something like that... (lol), nothing is meant by the 100 years. It's simply a saying, and one that does not exist in English. So every single time someone says that, regardless of context, should it really be translated as "You're 100 years too early!"?
Many would argue, "Yes!" and when I first started translating 10-ish years ago, I'm sure I felt the same as well. But over time, I began to value really getting into the character and thinking about how that character would talk, what he would say and how it would come across in English.
Idiomatic Expressions (or "sayings") are one thing, and some people can draw a line in the sand with those. But what about everything else?
Here's a good example of over-literal vs. context. A line that happens nearly every week in every series we do, "来るな～！” (kuruna~) If we were to translate this absolutely literally, it'd be "Don't come!". Sometimes I see other groups decide to blur it just a tiny bit and go "Don't come here!" but Japanese is a context-based language.
This line, when it appears, appears by itself in a bubble with nothing else around it - so no pronouns, etc. A literal translation would be "Don't come!" 100% of the time, but that phrase can be interpreted differently based on the setting and whoever's saying it... and it should be! "Stay back!" "Don't come any closer!" "Get away from me!" "Stay where you are!" all the way to "Look out!!" and "Don't touch that!!"
This line could be someone running away from a killer, it could be someone holding off a horde of beasts, telling their comrades to stay away and save themselves, it could be someone warning his friends that a trap is right in front of them, it could be someone that just doesn't want to be followed. With all those possible situations and all the different characters that could be in them, is "Don't come!" really the right translation in each and every case?
Our hero's sister has been kidnapped as bait in a warehouse. The villains have set a trap right next to the door. The sister sees the hero running up to the building and shouts "来るな！" - This is a total classic movie trope, and if you imagine any western movie, the line here would be "It's a traaaaap!!!" and that's precisely what would be meant contextually there.
This is a topic that sparks a really long debate, and to be honest, what I really wanted to talk about this week (profanity in Japanese and translations) I could hardly start without laying some groundwork down first.
In the end, there is no completely right choice, and any choice you make ends up leaving something out. Something invariably becomes "lost in translation." We do our best to mitigate what gets lost and look at every series and every instance on a case-by-case basis and often have team discussions on how to handle certain ones.
The most important thing is to have intent behind what you choose, and at least here at mangastream, we really care about what we're doing, we love these series, and we've put a lot of thought behind all of our decisions in order to try to bring you something we're proud of releasing and that we'd be happy to read.
We can't always please everyone and we're also not perfect either, but we're always open for discussion and always listen to your feedback!
After all that, if you're still dedicated to not missing a single thing out of the original Japanese... well... there's a lot of resources out there nowadays to learn the language on your own!
Anyways, I did want to get into profanity this time, but with how long just talking about the basics of context and liberal/literal got, it looks like it'll have to wait till next time, so until then, thanks for supporting us!
DzyDzyDino here again.
Hope all your holidays were well, whichever ones you happened to celebrate! And Happy New Year to everyone as well! 2016 is upon us!
In the spirit of the Holidays, I thought I'd share this approrpiate little story from a recent Bleach chapter we worked on.
So when we work on chapters, usually we're all on Skype or some kind of chat together with eachother. This way we're all in touch through every step of the process, and the translation goes through a few sets of eyes which are all familiar with the series in the hopes of catching anything that might be off. We can also discuss what might be more appropriate for certain translations and what sounds off for what character and so on. Everyone here also has pretty strong English skills so we usually catch any spelling or grammatical mistakes too (but sometimes they still slip through! You guys are always great at catching them when that happens, and our team fixes it as fast as we can!)
So something else that's neat about us here at mangastream is that we have staff located all over the world from all different walks of life. This is awesome for lots of reasons but one that comes up a lot is cultural and language references. Bleach, for instance, looooves to throw in Spanish and German and whatever else they feel like.
In the past I've talked about "creative furigana" or using readings for implications before. Normally on the side of kanji in shonen manga, they'll have the reading for the kanji to help younger readers learn them, but they also get used for creative purposes or implications. A really simple example would be someone saying "That Jerk" but the reading for it is like "Naruto", so it works as a kind of subtext sometimes.
Furigana gets used in different ways for the ever creative names of attacks too. In this particular issue of Bleach, we had an attack that was written in Japanese as 「毒いりプール」 (A pool with poison in it, or a 'poison pool'). The reading for this however, plain as day, was "Gift Bad."
I did a double take, a triple take, stood up and got a drink, came back and checked again. Yup. Still looking me right in the face "Gift Bad."
What do I do? Do I change it so it makes more sense and make it "Bad Gift"? Maybe a Poison Pool is a bad gift? A guy charging up for a big attack, "rrrrraaaaaaaaaaarghhhhh!! BAD GIFT!!!" It's not inconceivable in the world of manga, right? Doubled by the fact that Xmas at the time was right around the corner, I go and pull up the Bleach wikia to make sure there's no associations with this character and Santa Claus, or he doesn't have some present gimmick.
I imagine a Santa Claus character reaching into a bag, "You've been bad this year! Lump of coal! BAD GIFT!!!!" or "You've behaved this year!! PONY 4 U!! GOOD GIFT!!!"
Still. Something's not right.
I run it by a staffer who happens to speak German and he clarifies. "Gift means Poison. Bad means Bath."
Wow. Many wtfs were had. Since I saw words I recognized in English, I immediately assumed they were English words and probably would have gone done some terribly wrong translation route. But thanks to our awesome team here at mangastream, a disaster was avoided and we got out the right translation.
tl;dr Strange translation. Teamwork wins out. Disaster averted.
Anyways, just thought I'd share this fun little Holiday-themed story with you for today and wish you all a Happy New Year from the staff here at Mangastream.
Hopefully you didn't get any Gift Bads this year. (ノ*゜▽゜*)
It's been a little while, been a bit busy with some new projects and also took over translating on a few more of our series.
As usual, I'll just be picking out and addressing little things that can't quite get conveyed properly in the translations of our chapters, or things I find neat and I hope you might find neat as well. Onwards!
Most recently, Akame Ga Kill had a kind of epic moment for me... like one of those moments where someone in the movie says the title of the movie. Like at the end of Chinatown, "Forget it, Jake... it's Chinatown." Or "Sincerely yours, the Breakfast Club". "7.62mm Full Metal Jacket" etc. etc. Sometimes it's gimmicky, other times it sheds new light on the title and is really cool.
Akame Ga Kill (アカメが斬る) had that moment for me, and the translation of the title had a lot to do with it and why it doesn't quite come across. First of all, there's the "Kill" part of the title, which is written as 斬る(KIRU) for to cut/slice or kill by slicing/slashing. This is played on further because of Akame's Teigu, Murasame, which kills anyone it cuts or slashes, means cutting and killing are one and the same. And since they are pronounced the same, they decided to stylize the actual spelling of the title, calling it Akame Ga Kill instead of Akame Ga Kiru. This may be common knowledge already, I'm not sure.
The title usually gets translated to something like "Akame Kills" or something like that, but this is where the vagueness of Japanese also steps in a bit. The title is open to so much interpretation, and you're left wondering a bit of Akame Kills What? Without anything else attached, there's also some other further out interpretations and connotations attached, but I'm starting to get off topic here.
Japanese is often very context-specific, with sentences leaving out many important parts and having you interpret it via context instead. So this title is vague and we just go along assuming it to mean Kill Akame. But then in the most recent chapter, Akame tells Tatsumi that if she should become possessed by Murasame, that she wants Tatsumi to kill her. Tatsumi then responds by saying, "Fine, but then if Incursio takes me over and I go out of control, I want you, Akame, to be the one to kill me."
This whole "Akame, you will be the one to kill (me)" is conveyed with the line "Akame Ga Kill" and suddenly brings a whole bunch of different connotations to the title. Instead of seeing the title as "Akame Kills", I started to see it as "Akame Is/Will Be the One Who Kills" and if this current arc is the climax, then maybe the title is coming from a wish by her sister for Akame to be the one to kill her? Starting to read into it now, but that's the cool part and totally what the whole point is. By leaving things vague like that, any time any new bits of context come in, suddenly new possible interpretations spring up.
This is probably one of the hardest and also most fun parts of translating. Often the author will write some super vague line of dialog on one page. You read it, you don't really fully understand what it means or what it pertains to, but as you read on and context fills in, it clicks in and makes sense.
It's kind of like watching a movie where you see a clip of the conclusion first. You've seen events. You don't know their context, why people are doing what they're doing, but you have some vague ideas that are floating in your head. As you watch the movie, the blanks fill in and then it all makes sense.
Wow. I kind of went on for a while there. I had a bunch more examples and things I wanted to bring up, but I'll save them for next time! I guess that means you'll be hearing a bit more from me over the next few weeks!
Until then, thanks as always for following us and reading our scanlations! Till next time, byebye!!
So the current Naruto Gaiden series is about to come to an end. Whether in the next chapter or within the next 11 or so, it definitely has an expiration date on it, which was really already announced before it even began, so it's not much of a surprise.
Rumor has it that Kishimoto's going to start working on a new series in August, or early fall. The big question is - what's he gonna work on? Many speculate it's gonna be something related to his one-shot Mario, but honestly, I don't think so. That short was a really old idea of his that he decided to polish and publish, and that was that.
Personally, I really hope he doesn't steer in the direction of any kind of realism. His work, whether Mario or that Baseball one-shot he did, didn't impress me, and I will always connect his style with fantasy, with feudal Japan and with some kind of adventure plot - so I really hope he goes for something like that in his next series as well. Be it about Samurai, some adventure/discoverer theme (without them being pirates, or else xD) or something else I didn't think of.
The other option is, and I think it's not that unlikely at all, is that he's using this Gaiden interlude as a sort of introduction to Naruto Part III. Honestly, I struggled quite a bit to see how he'd do it, and I still do. I mean with existing power levels being a big hindrance since it feels like those were already maxed out with Kaguya/Madara/Sasuke/Naruto.
I would love to see him doing something like a 10 year time skip though, and only few of the kids still around, with Sarada and Boruto as the protagonists in a crazy, post-apocalyptic world where all the adults were slayed by some uber-powerful enemy - think of Future Trunks' in DBZ, that sorta thing. But really, I don't think Kishimoto would ever go there... unfortunately.
Anyway, you all have any ideas on how he could spin Naruto further? Do you even want him to? And if your answer's a stern 'no', then what kinda series would you like him to create next? Describe it in detail, I love reading everyone ideas.
Hello people! GTY_Ponzorz here. This is the final part of the blog post series about Honne/Tatemae. Thank you for sticking with me all the way and reading up to the 5th blog post. This post is just me prattling on about why it might be important to understand the whole honne/tatemae thing and to know a bit about social issues in Japan. Here we go.
Last few words from me
I apologise if this entire thing has been incredibly long and boring. If you read up to here anyway, you have my deepest gratitude, and I really hope you at least learnt something or had a laugh. :9
To reiterate though, I cannot stress how prevalent, important, and serious the whole concept of Honne/Tatemae is in Japan. It’s as important as Ichigo getting his next power up and a new costume to go with it, and almost as important as having nice pristine weekly manga scans. :9
As a second point though, again, it is not to say that such a concept of preserving honor and what not exists solely in Japanese society. We are largely all the same human beings on this planet (some differences aside :9 ), and value a lot of the same things - love, loyalty, bravery, courage, friendship - and are faced with the similar conflicts and issues in our respective societies. I am discussing honne/tatemae with you though, because it really is a big deal in Japan. Everything I have written is definitely not the only way to go about understanding this topic, and it definitely may not even be the most correct in the eyes of many - it is perfectly fine and normal if you have differing views, or feel that I have over-analysed some parts.
It might sound strange, and even asinine - to explicitly discuss and read about this aspect of Japanese society, but it’s something you’re better off being aware of if you have an interest in Japanese culture because it really is a thing that legitimately exists.
There are many other social issues / deep cultural traditions and concepts that exist in Japan - and for those who are interested, it is highly enlightening to read more in to it and gain a better understanding about the nation that so many of you respect and appreciate for their manga/anime.
Funnily enough, Japan is not actually a perfect utopia full of sexy ninja, swashbuckling (stretchy) pirates and full-time shinigami (I don’t think most people can have such a vocation there) who run off to summer festivals every two episodes, watch some fireworks and then assemble the seven dragon balls to summon Shenron to grant them their heart’s deepest desires.
While the biggest problem some of us may have in regards to Japan may be “OMG why is it Golden Week, where is the next issue of WSJ??” The people living there actually have plenty of unique social issues quite irrelevant to a late manga chapter - just to list a few for starters:
They have an aging society, their birth rate is lower than Yasutora Chad when he’s lying on the ground, and they have heaps of problems with how underpaid and how bad the welfare is for their temporary workers, some sexism, the marginalisation and lack of government support for the Japanenese diaspora that return to Japan from South America (Bolivia and such), a bit of racism in the monocultural society, their nuclear problem, Abenomics... complications of honne/tatemae … oh have I said Abenomics yet? The list can go on for a little bit longer I daresay.
: ) Of course, every country has their own set of issues, right? But knowing about these issues might help you understand and appreciate the aspects of Japanese culture we all enjoy - Sakura flowers, gari gari ice-cream, weekly WSJ - that little bit more.
Thanks again for reading, hope it was still somewhat more interesting than your homework. ; )
Sources: Btw. don't reference/quote what I wrote up there in an academic essay pls. I wrote it for fun , it's not really a stellar example of writing and to use it academically in any sense is about as advisable as slapping Kenpachi in the face with a floppy gigai.
Sup guys, GTY_Ponzorz here. This is part four of the blog post series discussing Honne/Tatemae in Japan. This post is rather long, so apologies in advance.
How does all this help me understand Anime / Manga better?
This is a difficult question to answer, but I’ll have a go at it anyway. : )
This is my personal opinion, and I am sure many of you may have even more insightful, profound opinions - which would be awesome if you could share it, I am interested in everyone’s views! I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer to this, it’s a subjective thing in the first place - just connect with the stories you read/watch in the way that is most meaningful to you personally, and take what you learn from it and strive to become a better person, to better guide those around you. : )
To set the scene, which may be a very obvious one (forgive me), the origins of Manga and Anime as we define it today is, well, Japan. This means that the writers who no doubt put their lifeblood and soul, and all their experiences of their life, in to writing a given story, will have been influenced by the culture and societal standards of the society from which they were born/grew up/live in, in one way or another. (Let’s keep the flaming of any particular series that is not advancing to your taste, and editors (who are not soul-less either btw), and “they’re milking it for money” and blah blah out of this and assume for now my comment about the mangaka is a general truth ;9.) This means that the stories they write, and the characters they bring to life for us, will reflect those nuances too. Some particular nuances may not be very familiar or recognisable to an audience who has never experienced watching anime or reading manga before - but the more you watch it, the more cultural aspects you learn, right? (Or at least, I think you’re supposed to.)
The most obvious examples everyone picks up on would be the typical traditional stuff like how there are summer festivals in Japan, people wear Yukata, watch fireworks together, go to the shrine together on New years eve (insert falling snow scene), smash watermelons at the beach, obligatory school festival episode in anime etcetcetc - that sort of thing.
However, there are many deeper nuances that can be picked up on. Of course, everyone - even people who grew up native to Japanese culture - will perceive certain events or themes differently.
When one character shows their fragile weaker side to another character they have developed a trust bond with, that is not the tatemae. It’s a bigger, more significant ordeal than you think it is, when you reflect on the whole tatemae culture - even if the event in question is something very trivial, or very stupid.
“Hey, Soma-kun, I really don’t want to go to the study group today. I’m kind of uncomfortable around that group of people.”
That simple statement can be a biiiig deal. :x People usually don’t say that sort of thing to just anyone.
“I really dislike the beach, so I’m gonna pass this time round.”
“Okay, I get it.”
This sounds kind of … really super duper lame right? But even small things like this - if someone says this kind of thing to you, you ought to treasure their confidence in you. : )
In terms of Bleach, and where the values honne and tatemae (and giri) come in, I can think of a few examples. Of course, you can disagree - and tell me I’m thinking too much into it. But this is all in good fun, and looking at a story from this kind of a perspective can be interesting!
Shunsui and Aizen
Honne and Tatemae doesn’t have to just be for politeness, or to maintain an image. It really takes a lot of searching and perception to be able to understand what the other party is getting at.
Their banter these recent few chapters are a good example of general vagueness, sarcasm, and underlying implications that exist for the reader to interpret. I think Urahara, Shunsui and Aizen are pretty pro at this whole Tatemae thing.
A friend pointed out his point of view on a specific scene in Bleach to me:
When Shunsui spoke to Stark about how Hitsugaya is apparently going to be stronger than he is 100 years later, he feels that Stark was really saying:
"Mmm yea he is strong, but I am stronger."
That’s the sort of subtle thing you’ll begin to pick up on for yourself the more you understand certain aspects of a country’s culture.
Da Central 46
What the actual flaming fudge are these guys even doing?
Has the C46 legit done anything useful in the history of Bleach?
They only tried to
- Kill Rukia - death by giant flaming bird / allegedly most dangerous weapon in SS -_-
- Banish Urahara
- Kill Shinji
- Kill every other vizard
- Obstruct CC Shunsui
- Condemn Aizen to Muken, and oh my, look at where he is now and what he is doing. (¬_¬)
One could say that their job is primarily to preserve the peace and good of Soul Society. Yet, they are often manipulated, and will make a ruling that may be unjust, but it is the direct way to preserve the peace (rather than investigate the truth.)
C46 is the tatemae of peace and harmony in a society that is supposed to have no conflict, and now who’s the shogun that puppets his shadow government? Aizen Sousuke.
The C46 makes the judiciary system look like absolute trash - in fact, a lot of stories do. But I suppose it exists for many purposes, one of them may be a sort of commentary on how power is manipulated, how a government can be run (puppeted), how fearsome a facade can really be - and perhaps show that the people who follow their instincts and their hearts, perhaps, are doing things in a better way.
There is not a lot to say on this except for the fact that most protagonists in Shonen manga are very straight forward, demonstrate qualities of courage and strength, and always do what their heart tells them is the right thing to do. It’s almost like it’s for the purpose of challenging the main tatemae culture of Japan.
Many shonen protagonists are brash, say what’s on their mind, total KYs .. and so forth. It’s quite a contrast to real life, and they challenge the way people are normally expected to behave. Perhaps that’s why shonen manga is so popular - it is really fresh, exhilarating - and the story will take you into a boundless world where speaking your mind and following your personal beliefs is the right way to go.
When a protagonist is at a low, afraid to reveal their true feelings for fear of bringing inconvenience and harm to those around him - he’s usually taught that he shouldn’t be afraid to take the risk to pursue his dreams and goals, that he should just get stronger, and that people accept him that way and they are there for him.
The Gotei 13 , and the quincy crew, and the espada
The Gotei 13 and the Sternritters are a collective group with a clearly defined leader (In the case of the Gotei, I will talk about Yamamoto Soutaichou as I feel Shunsui is a different kind of leader to Yama-jii)
Japan is a very hierarchical society - this is also a facet of their culture that is entrenched in deep cultural and historical roots. This is where “giri” (Obligations) arise from.
All members of the Gotei are bound by the decisions of the C46, and the individual squads have a captain, who in turn defers to the captain-commander.
It’s that self-sacrificing sense of duty to your leader, and your people.
In Bleach, there are times where obedience is paramount, and you put your life on the line to protect Soul Society. (Think TBTP, think quincy invasion). But there are also other cases from the very beginning (SS arc), where you can see characters challenge the thoughts and values of their superiors, and make a stand. Early on, there is Ukitake and Shunsui vs Yamajii. Even now, the quincies are staging an uprising against Yhwach. This portrays the conflict between what is a rigid duty/obligation (to your lord/people) and what is the “right thing” to do (for yourself and the people/values you care about) - and it directly challenges the norm of the existence of a “paramount” duty (giri) that is socially unacceptable to turn your back on in a collectivist society.
There can be a lot of symbolism to do with the double code of honne/tatemae, the mask, the truth, the lies.
Not just in Bleach - but if you think in terms of Bleach - you can find symbolism in Aizen’s Kyouka Suigetsu, the masks of the Vizards, the internal battle with the inner hollow (Specifically in terms of the hollowfication process, the more agitated you get - instead of trying to stay calm - the faster the hollowfication happens. Your true feelings are super bad for you D: ) and even within the characters themselves. Ishida pretty much never says what he thinks, but his friends get it and just let it go. So what is he doing by Yhwach’s side right now? Biggest facade ever, if I can hazard a guess.
A lot of this honne/tatemae stuff is related to why the term tsundere is even a thing. :x
Tousaka Rin!!!!! (Fate Unlimited Budget Works)
Who in Bleach are the manipulative shrewd ones, whom you really have to read between the lines to get at the heart of what they’re saying, and who are the ones who always speak their mind? Which characters have a relationship of trust in each other? Which characters put up a wall and speak in riddles? This kind of stuff can all be related back to Honne/tatemae, if you think about it. Might give you a new perspective on things. : )
That’s it for part four – thanks for reading, and part 5 will just be a final wrap-up/summary post. Hope you enjoyed reading.
Hi guys, GTY_Ponzorz here. This is part 3 of the series of blog posts talking about Honne/Tatemae in Japanese society. Since the concept is pretty confusing, I thought it’d give some real life examples so people can have a better idea.
Applications in real life of Honne and Tatemae
(Some silly examples)
Example 1: Urahara-san says to Isshin-san and Ryuuken-san very neutrally/casually, “Are you staying for dinner?”.
People fluent in Tatemae-speak (not an official word, I coined it just now please don’t quote it in official cases :9 ) will take this to mean that “You’ve been here long enough, we’re done for now, I have other business to attend to, pls leave.”
The proper response to this (understanding the hidden implication) would be to say “Oh you’re right, it is getting late! I shall trouble you no further and be on my merry way. Thank you very much for all your hard work today. Otsukare-sama deshita. *leaves*
People who don’t get it, will be like “Oh yar sure, I’ll stay for dinner. I have nothing to eat in my fridge at home anyway. Thanks man.”
( ;9 Which guy d’you think said what? )
Jokes aside though, in an actual situation if you don’t get the response right then that is your instant recipe to a very awkward situation right there. This is what we call “Kuuki yomenai” (lit. can’t read the air/atmosphere). I’ll talk about this later.
Example 2: As small kids, Sasuke would always be at Naruto’s house. When Sasuke’s mum comes to pick him up, she will say “Please, come to our house next time.” However, every time it is arranged for Naruto to go to Sasuke’s house, some inconvenience would always come up at the Uchiha residence and Sasuke winds up at Naruto’s house every damn time, all the time. In terms of Tatemae, this would mean that the mother doesn’t really mean to have the other kid over at their place. She is just saying “please. come over next time” to save face, to sound polite.
I will reiterate the above kind of examples are totally normal in Japanese society, and people who are used to this type of tatemae culture will just take it all in stride A-OK.
Example 3: This is not a direct example, but it’s something I’ve personally screwed up on in my noob days.
When someone asks you to do something/go somewhere, and your answer is going to be in the negative, don’t say it straight! You have to be vague. No joke. It’s considered very rude to give a flat out no.
Example: (Please keep in mind that GTY_Ponzorz doesn’t want to go to see Avengers in this HYPOTHETICAL scenario)
Voxanimus: Hey Ponzorz, are you going to watch Avengers with everyone this Friday?
Patapon: Nah, I’m not going. (iya, ikanai yo.)
^This does not fly. The asker will be pretty shocked you gave such an outright “no”. They might take it to mean that you have something against going, you are being condescending, you don’t like them, etc. Wrong impression.
Let’s try again.
Voxanimus: Hey Ponzorz, are you going to to watch Avengers with everyone this Friday?
Patapon: Ah… I want to go but… Friday is a bit… (Literally in Japanese, you will say, “kyou wa chotto”. Which translates literally to “today is a bit…”)
You want to go but Friday is a bit… what? Well, most people who get the implication will take it to mean, today is a bit NOPE NOPE NOOOPE / I don’t want to go / I’m not free, got my hands tied.
It basically means an instant “no, probably/definitely not going” without directly saying “i’m not going (ikanai yo)”. Even so, it’s a lot more acceptable, polite, and respectful.
Note that you said you wanted to go - most people who get this tatemae thing will just take that as fluff, the prelude. :9 But even so, most people say it.
Example four: This is another instance of an indirect vague-response to when someone asks you for a favour you don’t want to do.
DzyDzyDino: Hey can you please do this for me.
Ponzorz: No, I can’t do it / No, I don’t want to.
^ Yep you guessed it, wrong response. Rewind time.
DzyDzyDino: Hey can you please do this for me.
Ponzorz: It’s a little difficult… (chotto muzukashii ne…)
Muzukashii = Difficult , which is the key word.
Chotto = a little, which is a buffer in a bazillion cases. It’s so useful. -_-
What it DOES NOT mean: Yeah it’s difficult, but I’ll have a hack at it.
What it DOES mean: I don’t want to do it , I’m not inclined to perform this favour for you.
How do you reply to a “muzukashii ne…” ?
You would therefore have to follow on with a “Oh I see, don’t worry about it then” and drop it, or, find another way to persuade the person now that you understand they actually don’t want to perform your request. Don’t say “how is it hard? It should be easy for someone like you!”. They don’t want to do it. Either change tactic, or drop it altogether.
(Sorry Dino and Vox for randomly shoving your names in to the examples, yurushite kure ;-; I’m bad at making up names.)
As mentioned before, Kuuki Yomenai literally translates to “Can’t read the air/atmosphere”.
It’s for those people who are often saying / doing the wrong things, at the wrong time, and making a situation very awkward.
In colloquial japanese, this is abbreviated to the acronym “K.Y” which just stands for, Kuuki Yomenai.
You can upgrade this to SKY, which is “Super Kuuki Yomenai” .
It is generally not advisable to aspire to be a super KY, or an Ultra KY, or a super-ultra-mega KY. It’s perceived as a negative trait most people in Japanese society strive to avoid being labelled as.
To quote the Tofugu website,
"Basically, KY is used to describe people who have trouble getting a read on situations, or have trouble feeling the atmosphere of a situation. This is viewed as a bad thing, and most Japanese do what they can to avoid being labeled as KY.
In many ways, KY can be representative of Japanese culture in general. Japan is a group-oriented society that values harmony, rainbows, and cute animals. As such, Japanese people are well known for being indirect, ambiguous, and avoiding conflict.”
That said though, those KY people are often an archetypical character in many anime/drama/manga storylines. Those kind hearted, or maybe loud mouthed, silly, silly, people. How many can you think of?
Okay to be straightforward with you all I’m done with part three. Don’t be a KY and have a good week. :D Part four will be about how all of this can be related back to the Manga and Anime y’all so avidly follow. Sort of.
Thanks for reading! : )
What’s up guys, GTY_Ponzorz here. As promised, here is part two of the blog post series about the mysterious Japanese concept of Honne and Tatemae. This post is an overview of why such a thing even exists, and how it’s applied in Japanese society in the grand scheme of things. Might be a bit dry… but there is still part 3, 4, and 5, woo... *-_-*
History/Cultural Background as to why such an explicitly stated thing even exists and is so deeply entrenched in Japanese culture:
The Honne and Tatemae is often known as the double code of Japanese society. It basically originated from the Heian Period of Japan (794-1185) where this Minamoto dude became the first epic Shogun of Japan and established the Shogunate (bakufu). In this period, the shoguns were the de facto rulers of the country, though officially they were appointed by the emperor. Minamoto Shogun-san gave heaps of power to his shogunate in Kamakura, while the emperor and the imperial court situated back in Kyoto was still intact but held pretty much… zero power. ZERO ;9. This is the origin of the shadow government, where the government that was the Tatemae, and the Shogunate was thus the Honne, the true source of power.
Most of the cultural roots for Honne/Tatemae comes from the idea of collectivism, that Japan is a society built upon social harmony and peace. Tatemae is used to avoid conflict, lest you inflict your non-homogeneity (that is not a word imsosorry) and selfish desires on the rest of your people and shame yourself/bring inconvenience to people around you. D: (sarcasm)
Applications in Japanese society
Lowdown is politicians speak in fluent Tatemae and it is safe to say that is the only language they now converse in.
They often have broad statements of philosophies that can be interpreted in many ways, avoid use of vocabularies that implies judgement on any given topic, and they have a lot of token words that they just pull out of their .. basket of token words, and everything they say amounts to a load of nothing. An Asahi Editorial that came out in 1994 commented that “a prime minister’s speech must be a vague speech that ‘touches everything covers nothing’. Which further shows that Japanese are already fully aware that these speeches are only for show and do not in actuality address issues.
Examples of politician tatemae speak:
They say “jubun ni” which means adequately. This is a delaying tactic, and no one knows how “adequate” the word “adequately” means to be.
If colleague Gin-san does something wrong/scandalous (for example), colleague Aizen-san will say “I feel sorry” (Ikan ni omou) . This expresses neither accusation nor personal apology, but indicates that the speaker understands that he/she is supposed to “feel sorry” about a certain incident involving his colleague.
Tatemae is used for politicians to avoid a ‘loss of face’/public embarrassment. Tatemae is the safest way to be ambiguous about opinions, commitment, emotions, and thus the safest route to retain political hold.
As a result, the Japanese public does not trust the Japanese government. Tokyo Times (2011) reported that 8 out of ten Japanese felt that the leaders were not telling the truth, especially in the wake of the Great Tohoku Earthquake. D:
Note: Will provide a source for all of this at the bottom of the page + extra reading for those interested
Automatically assuming that the incumbent government have a strong influence over what is published in the mainstream newspapers, (as many other countries in the world also do) coupled with the fact that all the Japanese politicians speak in their facade-y vague Tatemae speech anyway, readers can just assume that most of the content in the Asahi, or Yomiuri newspapers (main national-level newspapers in Japan), is the prim-and-proper, pre-determined Tatemae side of a story. It’s like a kyouka suigetsu... of a kyouka suigetsu. (Yo dawg, I heard you like kyouka suigetsus… )
In contrast, the magazines, which have the image of being very trashy and gossipy, are surprisingly, said to show more of the true story behind the curtains, the honne.
Based on facts and figures, Japan provides a looooot of foreign aid. Japan is one of the biggest donors of Official Development Assistance (ODA) alongside France, Germany, UK and US. The MOFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) states that the Japanese ODA is extended to developing countries where people are facing various concrete problems. However, some scholars argue that even in Japan’s allocation of ODA, Honne and Tatemae is being practiced.
The real intention behind such foreign aid is to foster Japan’s own commercial interest. Put bluntly, altruism is the Tatemae that hides the real intention, and the honne, is their own agenda. While Japan truly did allocate more funds to poorer countries, trade partners of Japan in ASEAN countries received higher development funds from Japan. (ie. In the name of ODA , Japan has been giving funds to ODA eligible countries who are also big trade partners with Japan.)
Japanese workers are given annual leave, but that is a tatemae and it’s socially expected that you don’t use the annual leave you’re given . :x
The infamous drinking culture of Japan exists to bridge the gaping hole between honne and tatemae, so people can loosen up and say what they want. It’s also culture that what you say on a drinking session stays within the drinking session, it is forgive and forget the next day.
Okay, that’s all I have to say on the above four big aspects. Sorry that must have been quite dry, but I thought maybe a few of you might want to read it. Though… yeah it might have been really boring.
Extra on the side: Honne and Giri
There are a lot of other concepts that tie in with Honne/Tatemae. Giri is “duty” or “obligations” - in the sense of discharging your duty (or never discharging your duty) till the day you die - it’s a self-sacrificing sense of devotion to your superiors, your country, your people.
(If you ever watch Valentines episode anime, there is always “giri choco” - chocolate a girl gives you, not because she is romantically interested, but because you are her friend and she will give “giri choco” to everyone that is her friend. It sounds bad when you translate it and call it “giri choco” because I’m sure she’s giving her friends chocolate because she wants to and I would be happy to receive giri choco (Unless I was interested in her lol then woe me) but in the workplace, and perhaps other situations, you give dat giri choco to everyone - even people you don’t like - because it’s obligatory and it helps networking, maintaining interpersonal relations, etc) but I digress!)
There is a conflict between honne and giri - which is often examined in Japanese literature and drama, every time, all the time. A good example is for the protagonist to choose between carrying out obligations to his family/state/government/lord, or pursuing an epic (read; secret, clandestine) love affair. I am a real sucker for this kind of basic setting in a story but it usually ends in tragedy. *cry*
(On a side note, the recent generations of people in Japan pursue a more free and individualistic path which has clearly deviated from the path of their forefathers - but I suppose change comes slow, and the notion of giri is still very deeply entrenched in Japanese culture.)
Oke doke, this is the end of part 2 – part three will be some IRL applications of this concept. When does yes mean no, and when is it that someone is subtly trying to kick you out of their house? (x_x)
In the meantime, it would be interesting to hear from readers in this post and the next, what kind of norms are in your own cultures? (My German friend tells me it’s sometimes considered rude to be wishy-washy and indirect in the german mentality (More of which I will cover next week), my French friend tells me French politicians have a “langue de bois” (tongue of wood) for the tatemae speak of the politicians and my Serbian friend tells me that in some situations, a second cup of coffee served is a subtle queue to leave? In Chinese, there is an expression of having a “thick face” to express that someone is shameless, and so on… :9)
That’s it for now, sorry for the long post and thanks for reading.
I did some extra reading up to write this post – which is basically a summary of this link. If you want extra detailed reading, this is the source.
Thanks again for reading!
Hi guys, GTY_Ponzorz here. I mainly translate Bleach. I am not sure why but it came to my realisation lately that this certain aspect of Japanese culture actually crops up in anime/manga more than we realise, so I thought I’d just write a post about it for anyone who is interested. Since I translate Bleach, many general examples I give will be Bleach related so please bear with me, but hopefully it’s not too bad. What would be awesome is if you could leave in the comments your own analysis/views about your favourite anime/manga in relation to this topic!
This post will be divided in to five parts which will be posted weekly, on Sundays (GMT) – to save you from reading a super long post all at once. Promise it will be good. :x
Okay, so here is what I want to talk about:
The truth and the mask: Honne and Tatemae
This is a very distinctly Japanese concept, and may be a little difficult to explain and grasp so please bear with me.
As a short-and-sweet summary to give you an idea;
Honne is the truth; someone’s true feelings, their inner desire, what it is they themselves want. In Japanese society, this is not something that is revealed easily. You’d have to be considerably intoxicated or be very trusting of someone (close friend) to disclose your honne.
Tatemae is a facade; I don’t want to call it a lie, but in many cases you can’t deny that the tatemae is a lie. It’s the polite exterior mask you show to the world, to avoid conflict and preserve pride.
This concept is deeply, deeply entrenched into Japanese culture, and small children, knowingly or unknowingly, learn to grow up maintaining their two different codes of conduct. (Kids are legit taught to have a Tatemae face in the classroom, regardless of their personal thoughts on an issue.)
This is not to say that such a concept is unique to Japan. A lof of people who are familiarised for the first time with Tatemae say, “Oh wow wata bunch of flaming liars the Japanese people are then.” I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume people of the Japanese society lie more or less than any other group of people on this planet. For starters, in many oriental cultures with confucian values, the idea of honor, pride, saving face, doing what is right vs what you want, has been prevalent through centuries and centuries of civilisation. I am sure in your respective cultures, there is such a standard of maintaining a facade, being polite, telling white lies- things which you learn to adapt to - and gradually get a grip on what kind of stuff you do and say flies in your society, and what just really doesn’t.
Why I say this is a distinctly Japanese concept though, is the fact that they have coined specific words such as “honne” and “tatemae” to explicitly talk about this social convention - it is a big deal to them - and this concept of a polite facade is definitely more evident in Japanese society, and more acceptable too. (There are also many anthropologists, psychologists, linguists, who do research on this stuff! ) and having an understanding of it, even a basic understanding, can help to better understand a lot of the other issues, behaviours, events, that happen in Japanese society - because once you’ve learnt to identify Honne/Tatemae, boy is it obvious sometimes - and as a reader , some of the things people/characters do can make a deeper impact/ hold more significance than before. : )
As a translator of Japanese, having a solid grasp on this concept is especially important in order to make solid translations of the meanings in the dialogue. How do you translate a conversation that means on thing on the surface, but may imply something else completely?
To quote Jay Rubin (Translator of many of Murakami Haruki’s novels, and Japanese literature lecture at Harvard University)
“The Japanese language can express anything it needs to, but Japanese social norms often require people to express themselves indirectly or incompletely.”
I’m sure Dino and Vox have written many a post about how vague the Japanese language can be in comparison to English, and the challenges translators and readers alike face in reading a story that’s been translated to a different language. I guess this post will build on their posts, and hopefully this post will connect to previous blog posts.
Next week I will cover some ground on the applications of the concept of Honne/Tatemae in Japanese society, so don’t forget to come back and have a look.
Rurouni Kenshin has a very special place in my heart. It is the first anime I ever watched from beginning to end. The first anime I watched in Japanese. The first Japanese story that truly and wholly captured my heart. It would be no stretch of the imagination to say that I owe my current passion for translation and the Japanese language to the world of anime and manga that Rurouni Kenshin introduced me to.
So when I found out last year that a new Rurouni Kenshin one-shot was being written to commemorate the release of the second and third live action films, I jumped at the chance to translate it. This is that one-shot. It's taken me a bit of time to complete—it was released in Japan in tankobon format in November of last year, and I got my hands on it around the same time—but I really wanted to do this franchise justice. Also, college is hard.
While reading this one-shot, I actually learned quite a bit about both the Rurouni Kenshin canon and the historical setting in which it is based. I'll discuss my revelations on the former topic at the bottom of the post; they contain spoilers and I'd hate to ruin this story for you now.
But before you go, I'd like to (as I've done in my other blog posts) offer a little primer on the real world events that inspired this manga. Bridging the illusory divide between fiction and reality and laying bare the roots stories have in history makes them all the more poignant. At least, I think so.
The main Rurouni Kenshin manga takes place in the early years of Japan's Meiji period. For reference, the era of the Tokugawa shogunate is the Edo period, followed by the Meiji. Next come the Taisho and Showa periods (think World War I and II), followed by the currently ongoing Heisei period. This one-shot takes place six years before the beginning of the main manga, that is, the fifth year of Meiji.
The Meiji period was begun by an eponymous revolution or "restoration," as it is commonly known—the Meiji Restoration. It sought to remove power from the feudal lords of the Tokugawa period—shogun, daimyo, and samurai—and consolidate it in the hands of the emperor himself. In that sense, then, a restoration of Japan to imperial rule, if you will. The Meiji Restoration was also a very important first step in the modernization of Japan. Before the Meiji Restoration began, while most Japanese samurai battled sword-to-sword, the American Civil War, fought with guns and cannons, had already concluded.
Change rarely comes quietly. The end of the Tokugawa shogunate was not a pretty one, and the chaotic transition period between the shogunate and the relatively peaceful Meiji Imperial era is known in Japanese history as the Bakumatsu. The Bakumatsu is also the backdrop for Rurouni Kenshin; although the manga doesn't actually take place during it, the events of the Bakumatsu deeply affect all the characters in the story, particularly Kenshin himself.
The chaos of the Bakumatsu was primarily a struggle between two forces: the pro-Imperial Ishin Shishi (維新志士, Restoration patriots) and pro-shogunate forces like the Shinsengumi. The Ishin Shishi were composed mainly of samurai from the Satsuma and Choshu clans, as the alliance between these two clans was what built the foundation for the Meiji Restoration itself. The top brass of the Meiji government was pretty much all former Satsuma and Choshu leaders.
The Meiji government used whatever means it could to undermine the shogunate and gain power for itself. Often, its methods were less than honorable. In particular, it relied rather extensively on assassination to eliminate key figures of the opposition. The four most notorious assassins of the period were known as the Bakumatsu Shidai Hitokiri (幕末四大人斬, Four Great Manslayers of the Bakumatsu). One of them was a samurai named Kawakami Gensai. This is the character upon whom Himura Kenshin is based. Kenshin, disillusioned with the death and carnage he wrought in his days as an assassin, decides to never kill a person again, but still continues fighting for Japan's betterment. His foe, Shishio Makoto, is the assassin that was hired to take his place, a man who decides that the order and peace of the Meiji government is weakening Japan.
So in a larger sense, the struggle between Kenshin and Shishio is a struggle between modernity and antiquity, a battle between order and chaos, a clashing of change and constancy.
This one-shot, though, is not about Kenshin at all. It is about Shishio.
(Spoilers start from here on out! Go read the one-shot now if you haven't already.)
One of the problems with Shishio being a villain in the main storyline is that he is necessarily required to be evil, to be a foil in as many possible ways to Kenshin as he can. This leaves little room for characterization, or at least less than if he weren't confined to any particular plot role. The fact, then, that this story allows him the freedom to leave that "villain" box means we get to see a different side of the guy.
And its this side that I quite like. Make no mistake, Shishio is cruel and shrewd and merciless, but this depiction of him shows that he's also got a roguish, sarcastic attitude, and that it's straight up cool.
The best thing is that this story isn't just some ultimately irrelevant side story or "filler"; it's clear that it's intended to be canon. Events that take place in the main storyline are explained here, like why Shishio kills Yumi during his final duel with Kenshin, or what his final attack looks like. Learning the background behind these events further enriched my understanding of the main series. Made the pieces of that story fit just a little bit closer, if you will.
Equally interesting to me were some of the attack and character names that I never knew before, as they are unfortunately never properly explained in most translations. So, as I've done in the past, I want to share some of that interesting-ness with you.
First, we have names. As my fellow translator DzyDzyDino has explained in a previous blog post, translating Japanese names almost always boils down to a trade-off between meaning and pronunciation. In English, in order to change meaning, most of the time we have to change the pronunciation. English is written with the Latin alphabet, a phonetic script, meaning that the way we write a word is inextricably linked to the way it must be pronounced. Japanese names, however, are written in kanji, an ideographic script. This means that, in Japanese, meaning and pronunciation can be manipulated essentially independent of each other. For example, my (non-Japanese) name can either be written with kanji that mean "two-flavor sake" or "benevolent charming pearl"—two very different meanings, but the exact same pronunciation. Couple this with the fact that Japanese sounds nothing like English, and 99% of the time, it's impossible to communicate both the meaning and reading of a name with a single, name-like word. Given this impasse, most translations often just completely ignore any meaning the kanji of a name have and simply write it phonetically in English, which, although not incorrect, belies the often deep relationship a character's persona has with the meaning implied in his or her name's kanji.
Hanahomura and Hanabi's names are written thus: 華焰 (Hanahomura) and 華火 (Hanabi). The word hanabi when written with different kanji () means firework; yet, interestingly enough, in this case, these two words are actually not that far off. Both literally mean "flower fire," it's just that the name Hanabi uses a different kanji for flower. On top of this, the kanji read "homura" in Hanahomura's name is a word all its own; it means "flames" or "blaze." A grown-up fire, if you will. So, when the little flower fire Hanabi grows up, she may become like Hanahomura, a flower blaze.
Moving on to the epithets of the Juppongatana, sadly most of them are pretty straight forward, but Anji's actually has an interesting back story. I've translated what he is called, Myouou (明王) as The Radiant King not because that is just one way to read the kanji, but because the Buddhist concept that the term myouou refers to is actually translated that way in Buddhist texts. The term myouou refers to the vidyaraja, the third, wrathful, type of Buddhist deity, after Buddhas and bodhisattvas. One commonly named vidyaraja in Japanese fiction is Fudou Myouou.
The name of Shishio's final attack also has roots in mythology. The word Kagutsuchi (火産霊神) in Japanese, which literally means fire-birthing spirit god, is actually the name of the Shinto god of fire. He is one of the sons of Izanami and Izanagi. According to Shinto texts, his birth comes at the end of the creation of the world and signifies the beginning of death. A rather fitting name for a final attack, isn't it?
Even Sameo and his little army have a bit of a quirk to their names. Sameo's first name is written 鮫男, and it literally means "shark man." His army's name is the Wadatsumi Kouheidan, written thus: 引原海鮫兵団. Wadatsumi is an actual Japanese name, but when written differently (海神) refers to a type of sea demon (also often called an umibozu). The "kou" in "kouhei" is the same kanji that is in Sameo's first name; shark.
On a cultural note, the fact that this story takes place pretty much entirely in a brothel colors its language, revealing some interesting facts about feudal-era Japanese brothel culture. In particular, there are quite a few terms used exclusively in the context of prostitution that are in this story, and not all of them were as translatable as I'd have liked, so I want to share here what I wasn't able to in the main body of the translation.
To begin with, there are a lot of specific terms for prostitutes themselves. Although the term geisha is often used in Western culture to refer to Japanese prostitutes in general, this is actually incorrect. The general term is yuujo, (遊女) or "play girl." The term used most often in this work, though, is the more "dignified" oiran (花魁), which is probably closer to "courtesan." By the way, the first kanji in that word means flower (Hanahomura and Hanabi's names weren't picked at random). Very highly sought-after prostitutes, those of a rank higher than any of the other girls working at their brothel, are called chuusan (昼三), a word I've left as is in the translation. Newly-minted prostitutes that have just begun working were apparently called shinzou (新造), which I have translated as "newbie." This is what Hanabi is. Very young girls like Akari and Kagari that live and "work" (in a non-sexual way, I hope) in a brothel as aids to the older prostitutes are called kamuro (禿). Being that English doesn't really have a term for this kind of occupation, I've left this too as it is in the translation.
The red-light district also has many names; pleasure quarter (歓楽街), play district (遊郭), etc., but the term most often used in the one-shot is actually the name of a real, historical and modern red-light district in the city of Tokyo—Yoshiwara. Additionally, the life of prostitution itself is actually sometimes referred to as "a world of suffering," or kugai (苦界).
That brings this rambling novel of a post to an end. If you've made it all the way here, I thank you for your attention. I thank you for taking time out of your day to read my translations. And I thank you for supporting all of us here at MangaStream.
As always, feel free to ask any questions about the one-shot itself or the translations in the comments below; I'll try my best to answer them.
Until next time,
Hi there, friends. It's been a while.
If you haven't, you should go check out the Mashima one-shot that follows at the end of the latest FT Zero chapter —"Happy, the Blue Cat."
I'm writing this blog post because that short seven-page work actually had quite the impact on me; I was hoping to share a bit about it with you all. So go read it if you haven't already! This post isn't going anywhere.
First things first; the Great East Japan Earthquake is actually referred to in Japanese as "The Great Disaster" (東日本大震災, Higashi Nihon Dai Shinsai). That should be enough to tell you how much of an effect it had on Japan and its people.
The whole theme of "Happy = happiness" as detailed in the note at the end of the chapter loses a bit of its poignance when translated from Japanese to English, so in an effort to get at least a little bit of that magic back, I thought I'd go into it a bit more.
Basically, whenever the word "Happy" shows up in the one-shot, it's written in katakana (ハッピー), identically to how it appears when it is used to indicate the name of the blue cat Happy. Although most Japanese people understand enough English to understand that this means "happy" as in the emotion, this word, when written in katakana and used as it is in this work, would be read first and foremost as a name, not a word in and of itself. It's sort of like if someone was named Mark; despite the fact that this is an actual English word that means marking, when you see the word "Mark" written like that, you automatically know it is a name.
The point of this one-shot is to play with this idea; on the last page, Mashima writes the word I've translated as "happiness" in Japanese, indicating that it is meant to be taken to literally mean just that. This, coupled with the statement on the preceding page that says that "my name is in everyone's hearts," completes the metaphor that "Happy = happiness." That is, everything Happy's said about his own name throughout the one-shot applies to the concept of happiness itself.
Quite a cute and inspiring little message, isn't it?
I know the world is a crappy, saddening place sometimes. Probably most of the time. But try to stay strong. And maybe, just maybe, do me and Happy a favor today. Think of that tiny little happiness in your heart and try to smile.
We're looking for two reliable new additions to our staff at the moment, and I figured I'd use the blog to give you some insight and details on a few things worth knowing and maybe get you interested in joining.
What we need is help in the typesetting department. In other words, copy/pasting the translation text into the bubbles of a page by using Photoshop. You can find a bunch of test pages and basic instructions in the Recruitment section of our website, though please make sure to send your application to smokybarrettms [at] gmail.com - and not the other email provided there.
You might wonder if you're suited to do this kind of thing if you haven't had any experience doing anything similar before - and the answer is a clear maybe. Honestly, we had people with years of experience with Photoshop apply before, and their test results were awful. At the same time tho, we also had complete beginners to any sort of editing software and they've since become integral parts of the team. It's all about whether you have an eye for what we're going for and the ability to learn the norms and standards - or not.
What you definitely need though is availability. I'll be mentioning times in GMT+0 format to make it easier to convert to whatever your timezone is. You should be able to help out with Jump, which we basically work most of Thursday on, starting at, say, 9-11am till, well, till everything's done, and the more of us, the faster it is, currently I basically do all three series on my own and work on that until about 4-6pm, depending on how wordy the chapters that week are. Then there's also the Monday morning, where we got FT and 7DS, plus other series at random times throughout the month. You don't need to be there for each and every last thing every week, that's obviously not expected of you, but you know, 3/4 of the time would be great? Haha.
In terms of time, I'd say 2-4 hours, on about 3 days a week, and you'd be a great help already, but talking from experience - we either had people join who could commit wholly and became core staff, dedicated themselves to working on whatever landed and whenever they could make it fit with their schedule - or they didn't stick around for long, helped with 2-3 chapters and then ran off because it wasn't what they expected it to be like, or I dunno.
If you're considering taking the test and applying at this point, then let me give you some words of advice: Read through a bunch of chapters of, say, One Piece, and Ippo or Fairy Tail. Don't read them for content, I mean look at the shapes of the bubbles we went for, look at the size of the text within the bubbles, how we change it from regular to bold italic for shouting bubbles, etc. Basically, try and imitate what you're seeing on the reader.
Later on, if your test results are promising and all, and we get to talk personally, I'll give you all the detailed instructions, like that you have to set the kerning to 'optical', that we always typeset with 'smooth' anti-aliasing and all the tips on how to make annoying lines fit while maintaining a nice shape (like reducing the width of certain lines within a bubble to get a perfect diamond shape and preventing a shitty one). You're of course free to implement these in your first test results already, by doing so you'd show me that you actually read this article until the end and aren't a complete waste of time to begin with, xD, but your main focus should be about getting good shapes, and nailing the font size appropriately for the bubbles.
I really hope to find some reliable helpers, good luck to you all. There isn't much reward for doing this other than the readers' moaning and bitching when we're 'late' or did something wrong, but the occasional simple 'thank you' and the fun that the typesetting process itself actually is, definitely makes this worth doing, or so I think, anyway.
Oh and feel free to ask any questions you may have in the comments, I'll try and answer the smart, sensible ones, since, well, contrary to the popular saying - yes, there are fucking dumb questions. :)
PS: If you're an experienced redrawer and/or have a graphics tablet, can handle it well and know how to use Photoshop, shoot me a mail too, I'd be happy to hear from you, since we definitely need some help there too so we can increase our speed.
Hey everyone. DzyDzyDino here.
It's been a little bit since my last entry. Since then, we've picked up a couple new series and have a lot going on this winter here at Mangastream. It's pretty exciting.
We've picked up-
Akame Ga Kill!
Seven Deadly Sins (Nanatsu no Taizai)
and also been working on a few of Matsuena's post-HSDK One-Shots. Got a few more things in the works as well, so definitely look forward to it.
Akame ga Kill and Seven Deadly Sins are both definitely "new" series, in terms of manga. Although we've hopped onto these partway through, and they already have a lot of established canonical vocabulary.
That's what I'd like to talk about a bit. What becomes standard, canon, or part of the fandom when a series starts.
This is pretty much completely up to the translator that starts the series. For example, we've had the opportunity of picking up Sukedachi 09 straight from the first issue. So far, I've found it to be an exciting series. Vox has been working with me on translating it and establishing much of the "standard vocabulary" for it.
What I mean by standard vocabulary is, for example, why in Naruto we referred to techniques often as jutsu, why sharingan and rasengan were left as such rather than translated. Kazekage. Konoha. Why some groups refer to Nine-Tails as Kyuubi, shadow clones as kage-bunshin, etc.
Every series has terms which either have decidedly more flavor left in Japanese, or has Japanese terms that have certain subtleties that get lost in translation. (Like the ubiquitous "nakama" from One Piece). Sometimes they're just for flavor.
Sometimes it's even done by the author, but gets lost because of lack of translation. Like the manga Akame ga Kill. It's literally アカメが斬る. Akame Ga Kiru. Kiru is how kill would be pronounced in Japanese, and written like this, it actually does mean kill... but specifically, to kill by slicing or slashing with a blade. Which ties in with Akame and her Murasame. The same Kiru is used in all the chapter names.
Often too, some terms or concepts, especially names, get "cropped" in favor of localizing the series. Where rather than explain some cultural reference or some deeper meaning, it just gets translated to something more convenient. Often these end up as reocurring themes that have to get changed every time if the translator chose to chop it out the first time.
For Sukedachi 09, we're trying to provide as much of the original meaning as possible. As it is, I'll try to provide either a blog entry or a featured comment in the Disqus comments at the end of the chapter explaining. I'm sure Vox will have some input on the chapters, as well.
I'll just throw out a few of the terms I bumped into in Sukedachi, and later on in Vox wants to add anything, I'm sure he will :)
First off is the name of the Series, Sukedachi Nine.
A literal definition of sukedachi (助太刀) is like backup, seconds, a guy waiting in the wings, perhaps even something like a tag-team partner waiting to jump in when you go down. It's written with with the kanji for assisting or helping (助 suke) + long sword (太刀 tachi). This is what's written on the backs of their uniforms.
The people that are sukedachi are referred to as Sukedachi-Nin (助太刀人). Nin means person (can also be pronounced jin), and is the usual ending for professions, much like -man is in english. For a more natural sound, I use Sukedachi to refer to the people as well. Like "We are Sukeadchi." as opposed to "We are Sukedachi-Nin", although you can't deny there's something interesting behind Sukedachi-Nin(e) :). The series is full of little wordplays like this.
The term for Vengeance they use in this series is is Adauchi (仇討). Which is pretty literally "vengeance" (as opposed to revenge (fukushuu 復讐). Sukedachi is sometimes used to mean vengeance in this series too, and depending on its meaning, I sometimes translate it as vengeance.
The term used for reversing a vengeance is Kaeri-Uchi (返り討ち). This term is so specific, that I've kept it in Japanese. Loosely, it can be used like turning the tables on someone. But literally, like when someone challenges you to something or is expecting to defeat you and you turn the tables on them. It also has a definition of killing someone would was trying to take vengeance on you. "Killing a would-be avenger." Rather specific, no? So I've left this as Kaeri-Uchi.
There's so much going on in this series, that if I were to fill up one blog post with all of it, it would go on and get really long. I'll leave you with two more chapter specific things on Sukedachi 09.
The "Cautious Driving" and "Presumptious Driving" from chapter 1 and part in chapter 2 were literally "Kamoshirenai-unten (かもしれない運転)" and "Darou-unten (だろう運転)". Unten means "driving". Kamoshirenai means "maybe", and darou kinds of mean "probably". The basis being the kamoshirenai-unten driver would always be like, "there might be someone around the corner. maybe i should stop and check this way and that way. maybe the light might turn red.". The "darou" driver presumes everything like "there probably wont be anyone at the intersection." "That guy will probably yield to me" "I can probably make this turn safely". and so on.
The names in this series are also very colorful. We'll take a look at the criminal's name for chapter 02. His name is Hige Gokuo (卑下獄夫).獄 is the Goku from jigoku (地獄) which means hell, and means prison (jigoku literally translates to earth prison). 夫 means husband or man. So his first name kind of prisoner or prison's husband.
It's his family name that's interesting. 卑下 (hige) means humility or self-deprecation. Putting yourself down. Etc. Not to the level of self-loathing, but still in that vein. Hige can also mean beard (髭), and this goes into play with the character, with the stubble on his chin. Apart from his catch phrase about his specialties, he has this phrase when he gets excited where he literally says "my beard is getting goosebumps".
That sounds a bit silly in English, especially when his name isn't "beard" in english, and in English beard is more a full grown beard and not just stubble.
Phew! That was a mouthful!
With all these new series, there's a lot of little bits I'd love to get caught up on. I'll try to write weekly and bring you all up to speed on all the little tidbits from these series. Sukedachi Nine is really promising and exciting so far, I have high hopes for it! If you haven't checked it out yet, try and do so!
Anyways, happy holidays! Have a merry christmas, happy hannukah, kwanzaa, whatever!
P.S. Because I said I would mention it, one more bit about Nanatsu no Taizai, there's the character named Death Pierce who popped up recently. Now, in Japanese, a Pierce (ピアス) is an earring or a piercing in the jewelry sense. The first part, DESUPIA kind of sounds like "Despair" too, which Oda used in One Piece in the Sky Piea arc, Enel's Ark Maxim had his dark clouds move called "DEATH PIEA" which also was a play on Despair and the whole sky piea/death piea thing.
Also something to think about, DEATH in Japanese is pronounced です which most easily e a conjugation of "to be". Therefore, dying and existing are the same word depending on how it's used. :)
Okay, Merry Xmas from us at Mangastream!!
Literal Translations vs Subtle Nuances
Sometimes translators have to make the choice between a literal translation and capturing the nuance and atmosphere of the dialogue. Literal translations give you the word-for-word dialogue in another language, but grasping the overall atmosphere of the scene is sometimes more important.
Kyouraku Shunsui of Bleach is a very charming, polite character despite how jaunty and lazy (and powerful) he can be. In Bleach 605, Shunsui adds the –san suffix on to the end of the word “Teki”（敵 which means “enemy”). He is referring to the Quincies in this context, and we can translate this a number of ways. Enemy-san, Teki-san, or Quincy-san, and so forth. But none of these fit in that well in fluid English, and this is where the overall nuance of the dialogue can take some priority. The –san suffix is added to show politeness, and despite the fact that the Quincies just came in and all but destroyed Seireitei, Shunsui has added the –san suffix on to the end of their collective term. He is trying to show cordiality and politeness when referring to them. Call it politeness or call it sarcasm, I have decided to translate “teki-san” in to “Quincy friends” in English, because this term in English seems to carry over well both the meaning, and the nuance that the original Japanese term (teki-san) had.
Shunsui also uses the word “Kureru” a lot when speaking about things that have been done, and this is also something that is extremely difficult to convey in English. There are various kinds of grammatical specificities such as “Kureru” that modify the nuance of a sentence/statement in Japanese, but for the time being I will focus on “Kureru”.
The grammar point "Kureru" is used in spoken Japanese a lot and mostly in the context of when someone has done something nice / a favour for you and you are trying to express gratefulness without having to outright state that you are extremely grateful.
For example, just so you can understand the nuance:
"Nanao-chan did all my leftover paperwork (Insert Kureru here) today".
This would express mainly the fact that Nanao-chan did indeed do the leftover paperwork, but it also shows that you are grateful for it.
Shunsui is stating that the Quincies shattered all of Seireitei -insert Kureru here-. This is perhaps more sarcasm, or just showing that Shunsui can make light of almost anything and take everything in stride – this nuance is very hard to convery – but it is important in conveying the intricacies of a character via their dialogue.
Literal Translations vs Metaphorical Expressions
Every language has some metaphorical expressions which are not to be taken literally. For instance, if I were a Samurai and I said, “I feel naked without my Katana”. What does this mean? I don’t really mean I feel like I have a distinct lack of clothing and I feel cold and embarrassed. :x In this context, it would mean I felt incomplete without my weapon of choice.
There has also been a lot of discussion about whether Ichibei told, or did not tell, Yhwach that his throat would be Crushed.
The Japanese for what Ichibei says is "Nodo ga tsubureru" (喉が潰れる).
Nodo = Throat
Tsubureru = Crush
So yes, it literally means that throats shall be crushed. But no Japanese native speaker will take it that way.
What it really means is
"You will lose your voice / your voice will go hoarse".
If you look at Bleach 605, Yhwach did lose his voice. It can then be argued, sure, that he did go and destroy his throat by plunging two fingers in to it (ouch) to regain his voice so the expression may have had some sort of a double entendre.
As mentioned above, however, no Japanese speaker would take that expression literally to mean a crushed throat. That would be akin to native English speakers reading about a grand heist at a casino in Vegas being a “close shave”, and then proceeding to conclude that the entire operation had been about the thieves using razors to intimately shave each other. Just, no.
Come on guys, some phrases shouldn't be understood literally or the true meaning is totally just gonna go over your head. (Unless nothing goes over your head because your reflexes are simply too fast…)
The vagueness of a sentence without a subject
In Japanese, when you speak you don't actually need to indicate a subject. You can just pick up a conversation without explicitly indicating what/who it is you are talking about. This can sometimes make it very hard to discern what is actually being discussed, and consequently prove difficult to translate.
In the scene when Ukitake is discussing the Quincy Invasion in to the Royal Realm, it is not actually clear who it is, that Ukitake is saying has "let" the Quincies invade the the Royal Realm. (“Let” can be otherwise understood as “failed to stop”.) Ukitake could be meaning Shunsui, or he could be the Royal Guard. Shunsui does not confirm or deny whether it is himself in the next panel, he just goes on to ask Ukitake if he has realised that this is as predicted - the "Kamikake" is *doing something/been put in to action* and seems like it's successful.
To discern whether Ukitake is indicating whether it is Shunsui or the RG that have "let" the invasion in to the RR happen, the general path to take is to think about within whose power it is to have been to "prevent" it. I had thought it was primarily the RG who were responsible for letting Yhwach take a walk around in the RR, so I had translated it as "They". But the Chinese scanlations team has put down "you've" as the pronoun, indicating that Ukitake is speaking directly about Shunsui. This can also be correct. Note that this sentence is just plain vague, and there isn't really a way to be 100% sure unless you gave Kubo-sensei a phone call yourself.
Also, do note that this entire statement by Ukitake is a conjecture based of what Ukitake has caught wind of to bring up a point with Shunsui.
When new concepts/objects/skills are brought in to a Manga
When a new move, or a new object, place, skill, concept, or character – is brought in to the latest chapter, translators have to make a choice on whether to translate the name in to English words, or leave it in the original Japanese and add some notes. In most cases, the latter is the safer choice but even then, to try to understand the introduction of something new may take a lot of research and background knowledge.
What is a Kamikake? No one knows at this point, but most Native Japanese speakers see the word as a derivative of the word “Gankake” which is a Shinto/Buddhist prayer.
Kamikake comes from that same vein, except for fictional purposes, the "Gan" has now become "Kami".
The entire dialogue of Ukitake discussing the Kamikake, I interpreted to flow something like this:
The Quincies successfully set foot in the RR > Someone (Likely Ukitake but maybe not) predicted that the RR shall be invaded by Quincies > The Kamikake is set in motion > The Kamikake seems to be working in their (SS) favour.
In time, we shall see what the Kamikake is.
Senri Tsuutenshou 千里通天掌 (Ichibei's giant palm)
Just wanted to talk about the origins of this skill and what it's likely to be based off.
This palm is based off the palm of a buddha called "Ru lai". (and Ichibei is a monk! Ah-hah! )
It's actually extremely difficult to find English material about this Buddha in question, but in my own words, this Buddha has a palm that can extend to infinity. This skill is most famous in Journey to the West, and for all I know it probably originated from there. (Journey to the West is a Chinese Classic Novel published in the 16th century and is widely used as an inspirational source for many fictitious stories and games today)
This reference of the all-extending palm that you can never run away from is so well known amongst Chinese kids (because Journey to the West is the childhood story almost all Chinese kids grow up with) it's often used jokingly (or half jokingly) to describe one's mom.
This is an extract from the Wikipedia Article of Sun Wu Kong, which narrates Wukong's experiences with Ru Lai Buddha based on events which happened in the Journey to the west.
With all of their options exhausted, the Jade Emperor and the authorities of Heaven appealed to the Buddha, who arrived from his temple in the West. The Buddha made a bet with Sun Wukong that Sun Wukong could not escape from Buddha's palm. Sun Wukong, knowing that he could cover 108,000 li in one leap, smugly agreed. He took a great leap and then flew to the end of the world in seconds. Nothing was visible except for five pillars, and Wukong surmised that he had reached the ends of Heaven. To prove his trail, he marked the pillars with a phrase declaring himself "the great sage equal to heaven" (and in other versions, urinated on the pillar he signed on). Afterward, he leaped back and landed in the Buddha's palm. There, he was surprised to find that the five "pillars" he had found were in fact the five fingers of the Buddha's hand. When Wukong tried to escape, the Buddha turned his hand into a mountain. Before Wukong could shrug it off, the Buddha sealed him there using a paper talisman on which was written the mantra Om Mani Padme Hum in gold letters, wherein Sun Wukong remained imprisoned for five centuries.
Journey to the West has been the inspiration for many games and fictional works, the more you read about it the more you realise! Some examples are, Son Goku from Dragon Ball, Wukong from League of Legends, and the Saiyuki Manga, for starters.
I just want to say that Wu Kong is my childhood hero.
That’s about it from me, sorry it’s so long – hope it gave a little bit of insight in to what it is to translate between Japanese and English, and some of the choices translators have to make to bring out the most accurate portrayal of a story to the readers.
Timeskip 15 years later! Naruto is over!
We made it, everyone! What a ride it's been, too.
So we had a color-packed fanservice filled harry potter epilogue style final chapter to top it off.
Lots of ____ X ____ shipping dreams come true. We have Naruto's kid, Bolt. Though the feeling gets kind of lost pronouncing it like you would in English, "Bolt." Just like you would pronounce "Na-ru-to", his name is "Bo-ru-to". When said in Japanese, the names sound very similar.
When I was looking at Neji's gravestone, I got really confused. For some reason, this had never clicked in my head before. Maybe because I wasn't really translating Naruto during any major arcs with Neji or Hinata, but Hinata's name is always written in Katakana, just like Neji. Their family name, "Hyuuga" is written in kanji as so 日向 which means "in the sun" or "a sunny place" and is read... as "Hinata". So if you didn't know that the family name was actually read as "Hyuuga", you'd look at Hinata's name and think, "Hinata Hinata?". Coincidentally, 日向く would be what sunflowers or "Himawari" do, "face the sun". Okay, pretty dumb and not all that interesting, I know, but I thought it was funny just 'cause I never noticed it. Chances are you all probably did.
So, as you probably know, Japanese sentence structure is Subject Object Verb, different from the general norm of Subject Verb Object. In Japanese, you wouldn't say, "I go to the store." It would be more like "I to the store go." In other words, everyone talks like Yoda.
What I find funny about that, is that the way Yoda talks in The Empire Strikes Back, he adds dramatic pauses to his sentences via phrasing only possible with a Subject Object Verb language, as so often happens in manga. Imagine: "A powerful jedi... you will become." - "A powerful jedi... you are not."
There's a pause after the subject/object in the sentence. You're thinking "A powerful jedi! A powerful jedi what?! Will I be one? Won't I?"
Instead of "You will become... a powerful jedi." "You are not.... a powerful jedi." where you think "I will become what? I am not what?"
The feeling is completely different in the two, and the emphasis and suspense gets placed on the verb, in other words, what will happen/is happening.
A common cliche that pops up in high school romance and shojo manga is the heartthrob boy coming up to the tsundere girl who secretly likes him, and he says "Ore wa... Makoto-chan no koto... ... ..." and then gets interrupted or says something completely opposite of what she was expecting. The expected "cliche" completion of that sentence would be "suki desu.". This would be the equivalent of "I... really love... ... ..." the girl's heart starts beating faster. "Yes?" "I... really love... cashews." followed by the fall take, and some raging anime eyes and smashing heads and such. But the feeling is slightly different. You know the sentence involves him and her. He... something... her. and what that something is is the focus of the suspense and ambiguity. As opposed to the action being clear and to whom or what he is acting upon being the suspensful part of the phrasing.
So when people trail off in sentences, or intentionally leave them incomplete, depending on what it is, it takes some interpretation to convert it to English in a meaningful way. You can't have Naruto say to Sasuke, "Someday... I *mumble cough* you...". Perhaps from the conversation it's implied, he'll see him again one day, he'll save him, he'll bring him back, they'll be together again, whatever. But it could just as easily be, I'll defeat you, I'll kill you, I'll knock your teeth out, I'll bitch slap you for every single time you've said the word "revenge" over these last 15 years, etc. Context is so important.
Which is why it's really important for a translator to kind of be caught up on a series and have a general idea of what's going on and who's who. It can also be very hard sometimes to translate just one bubble by itself with no given context around it for the same reasons. Even being familiar with a series, we'll miss things.
As intended for a reader in Japan, they're expected to see some things as vague or alluding to something they're not sure what, or referencing something they kind of remember from before... well, the hardcore readers will know all the references... and translating, we have to be at that level as well, so that we can properly translate the references and the inside jokes and all that -- because just being a word for word translate bot definitely isn't going to cut it.
None of us claim to be all-knowing oracles of knowledge on the series we translate, but we have an awesome team of great people here at mangastream, and between all of us and the actual all-knowing oracle that is google, we often come up with the answers we need.
Okay. Little boring today, but we've got something pretty interesting and exciting up our sleeves. Expect a hefty interesting blog post when we release that. Otanoshimi ne~!
Hello there everyone, voxanimus again. You were all so kind in your comments on my last blog post that I thought I'd do another one. Well, that and this week's One Piece chapter has yet again a lot of stuff I want to talk about. I think.
Anyway, let's get the more lighthearted stuff out of the way. Several characters' full names were revealed this week, and I wanted to give some background on the references contained therein. Corazon's real name is Rocinante, or the name of Don Quixote's horse in the eponymous book. Law's name contains two references to the Napoleonic Wars: the Battle of Trafalgar is a naval engagement in which British forces led by Horatio Lord Nelson sunk 22 French ships without losing a single of their own. "Water Law" is a transliteration of the Japanese pronunciation of "Waterloo," the name of the battle in which Napoleon was defeated once and for all. Japanese has a habit of using the native pronunciation of a word when adopting it into Japanese; the Belgian pronunciation of Waterloo is closer to "Water Law." This means that transcriptions of the name as "Watel" and the like are clearly wrong. On the heels of this fact, I would like to make a request to all of you readers. Please refrain from commenting other scanlation groups' translations—be it of names, attacks, or dialogue—in the Mangastream comments section. I find it disrespectful to not only my work but that of our other translators. We spend no small amount of time and effort trying to come up with the most faithful and appropriate renderings we can of these manga, and to ignore that work is not very nice, to say the least.
Now, let's talk a little about the main underlying reference of this week's chapter. Again, though, to understand it, we need a bit of historical background.
Following Japan's defeat in World War II, the Allied Forces insisted, as part of the war reparations, that Japan move away from its imperial government and towards a more democratic one. Pursuant to this goal, Emperor Hirohito was required to issue a statement officially renouncing his status as living god, which would thereby decrease his monarchical right to sovereignty and pave the way for the writing of a new Japanese Constitution that would formally enshrine democratic power as the de facto arbiter of Japanese politics. The Emperor and the Japanese royal family would remain as mere symbols of the Japanese government, with little real power. The name of this declaration was 人間宣言 (にんげんせんげん, ningen sengen), which means "declaration of humanity." Sound familiar?
It is certainly very evident that Doflamingo's father's descent from the Holy Land and attendant renunciation of holy status is at least superficially similar to that performed by Emperor Hirohito following World War II. But the similarities do not run as deep as they did last week. Doffy's father's reverse apotheosis, if you will, caused his family to fall into ruin, as they were preyed upon by those they used to rule. Yet, on the other hand, Hirohito's renunciation of divinity was, at least in the long run, a very good thing for Japan. It allowed for the appointment of a Japanese Prime Minister and governance power to rest almost wholly in the hands of the three branches of the Japanese government.
In truth, though, Japan was actually occupied by Allied forces (in effect, the United States) and the majority of the governmental and economic reforms implemented following the war were done so at the behest or even command of the occupying forces. While it is probably not disputable that the long-term consequences of Allied occupation of Japan were beneficial, the attitude of the average Japanese citizen towards the occupation itself is less clear-cut. Some believed that the somewhat ham-fisted occupation's use of power hearkened back to the pre-Meiji days of the shogunate.
Ultimately, I cannot say whether or not Oda is trying to critique, using Doflamingo's family as a foil, the treatment of Japan at the hands of America following the Japanese emperor's renunciation of holiness. I was neither alive during the occupation period nor have I been to Japan and had a chance to talk with Japanese people about this. In addition, attitudes toward these sort of political issues vary from generation to generation, and I know not which generation's reaction Oda is calling upon. What do you think? Leave your opinion, or any suggestions or feedback, in the comments below.
Stay frosty, friends.
So, it really is happening, and sooner than most of us thought. November 10th (officially, as usual we'll get it a few days earlier), or in other words, 5 more chapters to go.
This 'thread' here is for you to post your feelings and thoughts about Naruto coming to an end.
Also very welcome are any and all kinds of predictions on how you see the final 5 chapters going - what will happen? Will Naruto and Sasuke even fight at all, considering how little time is left for that? Will Kishimoto solve this final conflict that we've been all waiting for with another 'Talk no Jutsu'?
Finally - what are your wishes for the future? Would you all be into a continuation of some sort? Naruto GT, with their kids or grandkids taking over? Or just let it end and rest in peace - we did have a great ride after all, especially in the early beginning, pre-shippuuden - in my opinion, anyway.
Anyway, any and all thoughts are welcome.
Hello everyone, voxanimus here. This week's One Piece was rather sui generis as far as One Piece chapters go, and I thought I'd write up a little blurb explaining, at least in part, the references and allusions Oda-sensei was making, some of which are not immediately apparent to non-Japanese audiences. (Of course, the real reason I'm writing this is that dino has done more than a few of these sort of things by now and I can't let myself be bested by the likes of him.)
First, though, I'd like to discuss the name of the "amber lead" substance introduced in the chapter. I was rather conflicted on how to translate this. The Japanese word used by Oda is 珀鉛, one that, as far as I know, does not exist anywhere else in Japanese literature. It is not a known Japanese word and has only really been used this one time in One Piece. The first kanji in the word means "amber," as in crystalline tree sap. The second kanji is a common one and means "lead," as in the poisonous heavy metal. The problem is that the kanji for "amber" contains the radical 白, which means white, an obvious nod to the actual whiteness of the substance. Translating 珀 into English as amber causes it to lose that nuance. Secondly, the pronunciation of 珀鉛 is hakuen (はくえん), which is actually a real Japanese word when written with different kanji (白煙) one that means "white smoke." Again, this is a reference to the whiteness of the substance and the whitening it causes in those poisoned by it. Ultimately, I was unable to find a word that could capture both the "amber" and the "white" nuances simultaneously and resorted to a literal translation, along with the resolution to explain the subtleties of the name separately.
Alright, let's move on to the actual content of the chapter. I—and, looking at the comments, several of our readers—was taken quite aback by the graphic, frankly gory content of this week's chapter. This is not the first time Oda-sensei has given a central character a tragic past but it is perhaps the first time he has done so so gruesomely. His reasoning behind this grisly portrayal is, however, probably more understandable once one realizes the references underlying it.
Characters and entities in the world of One Piece are often purposefully juxtaposed against one another by Oda-sensei in an effort to critique or call to attention aspects of the real world. The Tenryuubito are a classic example of the ills of a class system and feudalism; the World Government is the archetypical example of a despotic military tyrant, etc. Despite the seemingly childish superficial appearance of the manga, One Piece is surprisingly mature in the themes and motifs it chooses to tackle. This week's chapter brought to light a similar theme, one I daresay is close to the heart of many Japanese.
First, a little historical background. Compared to the rest of the world, Japan's industrial revolution came very late and very rushed. The Tokugawa Shogunate, a feudal government complete with daimyo and shogun and samurai, continued uninterrupted from the early 1600s up until several years after the arrival of Commodore Perry's Black Ships in 1853. Japan only began its Industrial Revolution in 1870; most of the world's nations had finished theirs by 1820. Japanese conquests of Northern Asia including China and Russia in the early 1900s further increased the need for modern technology and the industrial infrastructure required to produce it. Japan was able to meet this demand, but at significant cost.
Pollution, particularly from mining operations, went virtually unchecked as the need for metal for the production of weaponry was paramount. Cadmium runoff from the mines contaminated nearby rivers, and water from the rivers was used to irrigate nearby rice fields. The rice absorbed the heavy metal and it began to accumulate in and poison the people that were eating it. Two of the most prominent symptoms of cadmium poisoning are calcium depletion, which causes softening of the bones—so much so that the entire body begins to hurt—and anemia, which causes paleness of the skin because of lack of blood. The pain all over the body was severe enough that cadmium poisoning was named "itai-itai byou" (イタイイタイ病) in Japanese, which literally translates to "ow-ow disease."
At this point this should all sound rather familiar. It's no coincidence that the genesis and symptoms of amber lead poisoning in One Piece pretty much exactly mirror those of the real-life cadmium poisoning that occurred in Japan in the early 20th century. I cannot be certain, but I would venture a fair guess that this historical incident was what Oda-sensei was referencing in this week's chapter. In fact, itai-itai disease is just one of the Four Big Pollution Diseases (四大公害病, yondai kougaibyou) that plagued Japan in the first half of the twentieth century as a result of mismanagement of toxic industrial waste. The first, itai-itai disease, predates the other three, which occurred in the late 50s and early 60s, by 40 or so years. Those interested in reading further should check out the Wikipedia article on the topic.
Well, that ended up being less of a blurb and more of an essay, so for those of you that have made it this far, I thank you for your patience. Feel free to ask any questions you may have on this issue or other things relating to One Piece and its translation in the comments, I'll be around to answer them. Also, if you liked this, and would be interested in reading more blog posts like it, do let me know.
And thus yet another amazing series comes to an end. Thank you for reading along with us all these years!
Claymore was one of my favorite manga series since long before I joined Mangastream several years ago, and it’s been a pleasure to translate it for the better portion of the past two years. Wikipedia tells me that Claymore debuted in 2001, and I guess Yagi-sensei deserves a break after all these years. Let’s look forward to his next work!
With the end of this series, I would be remiss in not acknowledging the work of my fellow staff members, as well as the incredible translation work of my now-retired Mangastream senpai gernot, who was translating Claymore with the highest quality years before I came on the scene, and is responsible for much of the definitive Claymore scanlation out there today. I have strived to follow through in kind. It’s been an honor to carry this series, one of my personal favorites, through to the end (and hopefully in a worthy fashion).
Thanks again to all of my fellow staffers for seeing us through, and thanks again to all the MS readers!
So although HSDK has had an abrupt finale, Matsuena Shun-Sensei is by no means done. He'll be releasing three one-shots, each featuring some color pages and all ranging around 44-46 pages. They'll be coming out in consecutive weeks, in consecutive issues starting in mid-November.
The first one, coming out on 11/12, is titled "Kanata"
The second, coming out on 11/19, is "Haruka"
And the third, releasing on 11/26, is "DemIII"
Check out the raw page we uploaded at the end of the final chapter to get a tiny preview of 'em.
We will be releasing all three of the one-shots. The above dates are when they hit the shelves in Japan. We're not sure exactly when we'll be getting RAWs, but as soon as we do, we'll be working these out.
Anyways, thanks for reading HSDK with us for all these years!
Make sure to check back for the three one-shots!